Should Friendlies/NPC's be Aloud to Punish Players?

Should Friendlies/NPC's be Aloud to Punish Players?

  • Yes

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CoZmicShReddeR

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#1
Not to long ago before we decided to enforce not killing Friendlies/NPC's I never cared to much about it...

The fact of the matter is it turned into a routine on our server rather recently that we disallowed the killing of Friend lies. I never thought that people would actually hang out on our server after we started enforcing this issue. Was very surprised to see how many of you took charge and enforced this onto other players and I am glad you find something that seems rewarding or maybe sort of self disciplined!

The reason I am starting this topic was because I was invited to the Sven Coop 3.5 Beta forums and I brought this issue up in the forums there and most of those guys said it was a stupid idea to punish people for killing friendlies and that they enjoyed killing friendlies! Well to me they seemed very immature for saying that and not the type of guys I would like to have Beta Test something or be involved with such a huge project I would be afraid to put my stakes in such clowns as to be part of the #1 mod.

I don't know those guys very well and I am not saying who they are just that they don't even play Sven Coop and they are in the Beta forums and I find that ridiculous! I voiced my opinion and they made fun of it and for what because they have nothing better to do? Seems like I am deciding to take this matter to our court and let you guys decide here if this is a good idea or not!

I don't care if they come here and ridicule my idea or not it's not about that just like to see them come to our world where they don't have any powers to threaten to ban if they don't have their ways!



Now getting back to the nitty gritty and all that stuff I wanted to say!

I was thinking that if we could create something in Sven Coop where the NPC's could send people to jail or maybe even kick or ban players that would make Sven Coop really neat. Basically there would be a setting where the mappers could set it or maybe the server could have a setting to allow NPC punish or not.

So basically you would have it set so maybe if someone attacked a NPC they would be warned and if they did the final kill they would be punished! Not looking to always use this but would make the Sven Coop mod a lot more interesting in my opinion... Just be a lot less work for people trying to run a dedicated server or maybe stop some noobs from making the game play less fun.

I created a poll and please vote and don't take a torch and start attacking www.svencoop.com just take this idea and maybe help come up with another way to add this or another way to suggest this to the svencoop team!
 
Dec 31, 1969
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#2
you know i played this server on cs1.6 and everytime you would team attack, the player you team attacked would still be at full health and you would be slapped constantly to 1hp. I beleive that NPC's/Friendlies should remain at full health and you kicked and banned (if we cant make those people kick and banned i believe they should tossed in jail and they would listen to elevator music for about 1hour maybe more) the full health reason is because if more people team attack and kill the NPC/Friendly then you would have no more NPC/Friendly


hello,
? ? ? ?Wasternelon
 

Eye4NEye

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#3
The jail suggestion has merit (so does Wastermelon's idea which is slightly a better idea if it's possible to implement).

The jail suggestion would have to be tweaked just right. It wouldn't be fun to shoot into a cluster of monsters and accidentally send that one bullet into an friendly that kills him and sends you to jail after he's already been pummeled by other NPCs or players. Maybe a percentage of the NPC's health should be the deciding factor? If enough of the NPC's hitpoint expenditure can be associated with any single player who deals a final blow, maybe then punish that player?

We've all popped around a corner and shot a friendly (not killing them) because of an itchy trigger finger and then moved on in shame and we don't want to punish for that. I'm especially susceptible to shooting friendlies by mistake in a firefight, especially the ones that use the soldier models, because I'm flat out color blind and every one of them looks the same to me. Again, we don't want to punish for that either. We want to punish for blatant killing of friendlies and defiance of the rules.

So, I'm all for some programmatic punishment for attacking friendlies. I think it would take some stress off of the admins, give those of us who aren't admins a little satisfaction when we're playing and see it happen on a server where an admin isn't present, and clear the voice channel a little since admins won't have to be screaming at people not to kill friendlies (or at least as much!).
 
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CoZmicShReddeR

CoZmicShReddeR

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#4
My only thought is if I run this by Sniper or Sven Viking can they at least add some coding to the mod to either make this happen or give us a bit of code to make something to make this happen with a plugin? As it is right now our coder said it isn't possible to get the information to figure out who shot the NPC/Friendlies and if you shoot one he shoots at everybody.

I could put FF on but then we get other kinds of abuse...Be cool if I could just set FF for the NPC's and give them all God mode be funny to see them kill everyone! :p Bottom line is I really think we need this just not sure enough people want it to make it possible...
 

Eye4NEye

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#5
There's no harm in asking. If they can give you just the piece you need to allow our coder to fill in the gap, then maybe it won't be too difficult for them to implement.
 

ShadWolf

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#6
Hmm it will be nice the npc can punish player for shooting them. Not always we will be in coz servers. We need a little help. I remember playing this DOD server that has this plugin that punish players. Even the bot is allowed to punish teamkillers. First time shooting a teambot they will forgive you but shoot them again they bury you(could be same like jail time), burn you, slap you till you get little health, takes away your weapon and put a mark over your head saying "Free kill!" ect. If they continues to shoot or kills the npc. Then they can kick or ban them for a certain time. It was a long time ago I played this server so I forgot what it is called ?:? ?It was fun seeing a bot punishing them teamkillers. ?:D I dont know if its possible to put that in the svencoop or make something similar like that.
 

Taininfernus

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#8
Something I was wondering is:
What's the principle behind the forbid of team-killing? ?Are there a lot of levels that can't be completed if an NPC is killed?
Also, what about those NPCs that have infinite health, as determined by the mapper? ?These bots can't be hurt or killed. ?Does the principle still stand up to that?
I'm in favor of the NPC being able to pwn the offender, it'd just be funny to see Otis running around the map, killing people with his pimp-gun.
 

NeoFORT

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#9
Anything, to get them to stop doing it. I get tired of banning.
 

Einhander

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#10
AGREED let the npc's show players whos boss!
 

NeoFORT

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#11
Hell, it was like: 2maps and I banned what 6 people?
 

Drak

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#13
Well, it's pretty much obvious there needs to be something done. ?But currently this can't be fixed besides a kick/ban.
But if anyone knows Amxx(Pawn/Small) maybe can still think of aways of finding a player killing a NPC. But looky here.
Code:
11:43:34 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:04: "(fin) gimppi<61><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="17.00" deaths="7" health="98" 
11:43:36 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:06: "fs1e<58><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="28.00" deaths="5" health="97" 
11:43:40 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:10: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "MegaPatron{C7}[E-01]<53><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:41 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:10: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "Mr.skull<62><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:41 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:11: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "Mr.skull<62><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:42 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:11: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "MegaPatron{C7}[E-01]<53><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:43 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:13: "Dark_fox<55><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="4.00" deaths="7" health="99" 
11:43:43 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:13: "monster_hwgrunt<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "Name was too Short (4)<57><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:44 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:14: "monster_hwgrunt<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" killed "Name was too Short (4)<57><STEAM_0><team1>" with "monster_hwgrunt"
11:43:44 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:14: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "BioHazard{C7}[E-01]<54><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:45 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:15: "Schaafschuetze<56><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="17.00" deaths="8" health="115" 
11:43:45 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:15: "OETiger<60><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="1.00" deaths="2" health="-44" 
11:43:45 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:15: "monster_hwgrunt<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "BlueFox{C7}[E-03]<64><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:43:47 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:17: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" killed "Mr.skull<62><STEAM_0><team1>" with "monster_male_assassin"
11:43:49 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:19: "BioHazard{C7}[E-01]<54><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="30.00" deaths="10" health="113" 
11:43:50 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:20: "Mr.skull<62><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="5.00" deaths="4" health="-6" 
11:43:50 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:20: "BlueFox{C7}[E-03]<64><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="85.00" deaths="7" health="27" 
11:43:51 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:21: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" killed "MegaPatron{C7}[E-01]<53><STEAM_0><team1>" with "monster_male_assassin"
11:43:53 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:22: "monster_male_assassin<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" killed "BioHazard{C7}[E-01]<54><STEAM_0><team1>" with "monster_male_assassin"
11:43:58 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:28: "On va tous creuver !<59><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="4.00" deaths="2" health="142" 
11:43:59 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:29: "monster_hwgrunt<monster><NoWonID><enemy>" has been killed by "(fin) gimppi<61><STEAM_0><team1>"
11:44:04 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:34: "(fin) gimppi<61><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="19.00" deaths="7" health="42" 
11:44:06 og L 02/05/2007 - 10:43:36: "fs1e<58><STEAM_0><team1>" stats: frags="33.00" deaths="5" health="56"
This was a HLSW log, and it's reading that players killed a NPC, and it's shows if it's a enemy or friendy!
So what we need todo, is figure out how we can get amxx to read this, i already try'ed a deathmsg and it returned nothing.
Any ideas?
 
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CoZmicShReddeR

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#14
I should also point out that I do invite negative opinions here. So if you think killing friendlies is OK please let us know why and for what purpose? I don't want anyone to feel excluded in this chat because I do want to try to convince you that we should find a way to give them some sort of self protection from people! The whole idea in my mind is that they should have superior A.I. and that means they should be giving powers as well.

What I hope that we build here is a server that runs itself without the need for an admin to have to watch for players killing friendlies! What we will eventually have is a common system that will be automated maybe track players attacking friendlies and provide and automatic punishment. I know this would work a lot better if Sven Viking and Sniper from www.svencoop.com would include such a feature enhancement in the next Sven Co-op 3.5 or even Sven Co-op 2.0 Source.

I am the one that started this mess with pushing or a self governing server that the A.I. watches itself and I know that it would probably push the release of Sven Co-op back even further but it must be done regardless.

And even though we have a million maps that have the friendly kill being OK I think those maps should be destroyed or removed from Sven Co-op entirely!

What we want is for Sven Co-op to become a more serious mod and remove all the maps that allow the killing of NPC's for sport!

I am sure a lot of one time mappers that feel threatened by this might object but for the rest of us we will gain a better feel for a serious mod other then one that gets no respect in the Half Life world!

So we have removed a lot of cheat crap from the server recently and we have set new cvars to disable some of the Jedi functions on certain maps as to gum up the Jedi jumping like in Mega Monster Massacre.
 

Cairna

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#15
I love the jail idea, seeing as I don't care if I die in Sven.

I shall work on a plugin ( as slow as I am ).
 

Shaft

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#16
ok, what if you accidentally kill an friendly? It would still be counted as killing a friendly, so how can you determine what was accidental and what was done on purpose (an example would be throwing a grenade into a group of enemies that friendlies decide to engage... like in gruntwars or something like that.). ?I personally don't really care, but i want some some clarified though
 

Slayer

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#17
they should totally be allowed to punish players!
 
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CoZmicShReddeR

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#18
Well in regards to the friendly kill thing I would like to see maybe accidentally shots fired be recorded then if they rank up they count as one kill. But they have to actually take some health away from the friendly to rack up negative scores against you.

But if you do a head shot you should be punished without any exceptions and also some weapons should be used to automatically determine if you took out a friendly like if you used a sniper rifle that is obvious content but only with a head shot. Other weapons should be considered friendly fire.

Head shots should also be determined by the other enemy kills you have made on the server as well.

So if you get like a 90% frag positive kill rate you should be forgiven for hitting a friendly from time to time but if you actually kill a friendly you should loose that 90% then the next hit on a friendly should put you in jail.

The whole idea would be to maybe train people to regard friendlies as real people and maybe allow friendly fire on the server as well and the system could work to protect you as well!

But that all has to do with with how advanced the Sven Co-op Development team is with the coding and if they could actually pull this off... :wink:
 

Eye4NEye

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#19
i like the ranking system idea. the only drawback i see is with AOE weapons like grenades or rockets. sometimes you fire a rocket and then a friendly decides to run right into a mess of enemies and gets hit. it's hard to determine intent there. on the flip side, if you are wanting to make it true to life, it would make people much more careful about using AOE weapons. the headshot idea is a tough one too. for instance, just last night on reco i ran up to a door and it opened and having the jumpy trigger finger that i have i shot LaughingMan right in the face. We laughed it off, but if that had been a friendly he would have been wasted with a headshot and totally unintentional.

no solution will be perfect, but it would be nice to have some wiggle room and an appeal system in place. i am definitely in favor of a ranking system and maybe making certain types of attacks worth more points than others though. there are some things we can totally peg as intentional.
 

Cc2iscooL

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#20
Probably the best system I can think up would have to be something to do with damage points on friendlies. Say you hit a friendly with 150 damage (maybe a headshot.) You'll get added to some list and it will track you from that point on, but the amount of damage you've done to a friendly will slowly decrease (say in 5-10 minutes that 150 goes away) until you're no longer tracked. Doing maybe..300-400 damage total to friendlies would get you banned for 5-10 minutes, and future offenses would get you banned for longer periods of time, maybe 60 minutes, 24 hours, 3 days, 7 days, perma. These would slowly go away as well, over time, so say you didn't get banned for 2-3 days, you would be dropped down to the next "highest punishment" level until you were no longer tracked (note that 2-3 days would be after the ban timer had expired.)

Obviously this would need some tweaking for splash damage...but I think it's a good start.
 
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